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Post by kirby101 on Feb 24, 2020 8:28:21 GMT -5
Let's give Stan a break on the silly science. Writing 6 to 8 books a month, and with the Marvel method, he got the finished pencil pages and then had to fit the dialog to the panels. His forte was human melodrama drama. There are bound to be a lot of clunkers in there.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 24, 2020 8:49:58 GMT -5
Stan Lee’s writing when describing anything science-related is almost unbearable. “This invisibility device turns light into energy... and everyone knows you can’t see energy”. Wait... WHAT? There! I said it. Kirby disagrees.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 24, 2020 9:02:43 GMT -5
Stan Lee’s writing when describing anything science-related is almost unbearable. “This invisibility device turns light into energy... and everyone knows you can’t see energy”. Wait... WHAT? There! I said it. The Captain was sort on your page in his reviews of Captain America stories, but I always say that if one accepts that this kind of writing happens in a genre where aliens actually exist, planet-devouring aliens invade earth, and the world is not drastically changed forever, a man can be frozen in ice for decades and live, magic-space rings create anything based on the will of the user, then, by the nature of the genre, you have to accept the fantasy-science, no matter how divorced it is from reality. In the modern day (or that past 25+ years), some writers have tried to fill their writing with allegedly more "realistic" technical terms/reference, but its still a sea of technobabble used to either make the writer appear as if he's knowledgeable about a certain field or discipline (Ha!), or its designed to give the story the air of importance (I'm looking at you, Star Trek: The Next Generation - Enterprise). It does not, when you--living in the real world--knows its all make-believe that does not, nor is it likely it will ever exist. That said, accepting that is make believe does not hurt the overall effect, as it fits within the fanciful world of flying people, and guys with lasers shooting out of their eyes, and one should not expect it to be a mirror or real world science.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 24, 2020 10:14:30 GMT -5
I’m split on fudging the science. In order for Spider-man , Hulk and the other radiation characters to exist, they have to disregard real world effects. But when it comes to physics that effect the non powered characters, they should try to adhere to reality. Or maybe the reader has to just have fun and not try to explain the events in a comic.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 24, 2020 11:17:52 GMT -5
And it occurs to me that instead of unstable molecules, they could have just said that their powers adapt what they were wearing so they would stretch and not burn etc.
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Post by rberman on Feb 24, 2020 11:26:15 GMT -5
Sometimes it's just better to make up your own magic thingie like "unstable molecules" or "adamantium" than to use a real term you don't understand like "transistors."
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 24, 2020 11:47:01 GMT -5
What is the mechanism for flight of any Superhero? (outside "magic") We ignore physics with all comics.
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Post by rberman on Feb 24, 2020 12:28:05 GMT -5
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 24, 2020 13:25:41 GMT -5
Wired trying to be cheeky. The aerodynamics is very well understood. Air flowing over wings is not as complicated as he wants to make it. And we have the source of propulsion and lift. It works within physics. Just because the average Joe doesn't understand it is meaningless. Physicists, engineers and a lot of other people understand it. Including the author. But a person levitating and flying at great speed??? What forces are at work here.
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Post by rberman on Feb 24, 2020 13:30:29 GMT -5
That's some psuedo BS there. Wired trying to be iconoclastic. The aerodynamics is very well understood. Air flowing over wings is not as complicated as they want to make it. And we have the source of propulsion and lift. It works within physics. But a person levitating and flying at great speed??? What forces are at work here. It's known that it works. But it's not known why it works. If you don't like Wired, how about Scientific American? www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-one-can-explain-why-planes-stay-in-the-air/
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 24, 2020 14:00:16 GMT -5
I understand this deep dive physics question. It still doesn't keep lift and aerodynamics from being the forces at work. Unlike a human flying on it's own. Where does the lift come from, the movement. The fact is that even an untrained person like myself can make something fly. Airplanes don't defy Newton's Laws, people flying unaided do. Might be why the Magic powered heroes are less troublesome, because once you accept magic in a story....
A side note. One of the quirks of DC / Marvel was how few flying heroes Marvel had. And those that did Thor, Iron Man, etc... did have better explanations for their flight. Probably the Sliver vs Golden Age origins.
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Post by rberman on Feb 24, 2020 14:09:09 GMT -5
One of the quirks of DC / Marvel was how few flying heroes Marvel had. And those that did Thor, Iron Man, etc... did have better explanations for their flight. Probably the Sliver vs Golden Age origins.
There's at least a gesture in the direction of science, though the thrust/mass ratios rapidly enter the realm of fiction for Iron Man, let alone the S.H.I.E.L.D. helicarrier.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 24, 2020 14:12:05 GMT -5
What is the mechanism for flight of any Superhero? (outside "magic") We ignore physics with all comics. According to Mark Gruenwald, it was the manipulation of gravitons. I would assume through mental processes. Probably has to do with other dimensions, like Cyclops' energy beams and Hulk's mass. OHOTMU's factual, right?
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Post by beccabear67 on Feb 24, 2020 14:16:32 GMT -5
If you go back to the original superhero Superman he was from a planet with heavier gravity and didn't fly, he could leap farther than an earthling. He was made of denser stuff than we. Sort of semi-logical, passable for 1938, although maybe he should've been built like Charlie from the old Guardians Of the Galaxy on top of the density thing. I'm not sure when the red sun/yellow sun thing started... maybe it's all been downhill since? Superdog, sure why not, bottle city, throw that in too... all grist for Seinfeld if nothing else (and restarts shedding a lot of the excess residue of various eras). I remember a realistic Spider-Man origin re-told where Peter Parker is bitten by the radioactive spider, his hair all falls out, he gets sick and dies. I think maybe it ran in Crazy magazine. It's always amazed me at how all these people are costume designers and seamsters/seamstresses capable of perfectly fit outfits. Later in Marvel they had Reed Richards (or Tony Stark for armor) run side-lines providing other characters with their costumes. I also have imagined them doing title searches to see if a name isn't already taken and copyrighted based on a title search a magazine I was involved with did circa 1985. It's all been done in terms of deconstructing these old tropes, hopefully to laugh along with more than laugh at, thought there have been some really dumb scenes in comics of all kinds to laugh at. I hope there will always be some form of super-people around people can enjoy. Without Stan Lee and the more human drama touch it would've gotten stale.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 24, 2020 14:17:02 GMT -5
What is the mechanism for flight of any Superhero? (outside "magic") We ignore physics with all comics. According to Mark Gruenwald, it was the manipulation of gravitons. I would assume through mental processes. Probably has to do with other dimensions, like Cyclops' energy beams and Hulk's mass. OHOTMU's factual, right? Without a doubt. Main source for the scientific info was Weekly World news, IINM.
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