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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 10, 2019 12:01:56 GMT -5
The Earth Two version of Black Canary definitely owned a flower shop. I dunno how she supported herself after moving to Earth One. Interesting they brought that back post-Crisis. Yep. She worked there with her mother (the original Black Canary). This is from JLA: Year One I read few stories of the Pre-Crisis Green Arrow and, while they showed us what his non-superheroic job was (for a brief period he was a journalist, right? Or a columnist or something similar), I can't recall any similar scene with Black Canary. It almost seems that she was a full-time superhero... By they way, how do you exactly immigrate from Earth-2 to Earth-1? Do you need a Visa? A passport? Do they use the same money? Was she an illegal alien? No, she had a flower shop throughout the Bronze Age. You'd occasionally see it in the Green Arrow back up stories in Action Comics and in the revived Green Lantern/Green Arrow (it was canceled after the O'Neil/Adams stuff, in 1972, then revived in 1976). As for the immigration, you just got to the Dimensionalization and Naturalization Office, fill out form DN-133, in triplicate, with a copy of your birth certificate and letters of introduction from Dr Fate. You can also have things streamlined with the sponsorship of a Guardian of the Universe. You don't need a passport; just a comic book, since the writers are attuned to the vibrational frequency of the other dimension. You just need the right issue and show the page with you on it. Now Martian Manhunter was an illegal alien, always hiding from the INS and everyone else, taking away superhero jobs from better qualified people, like Johnny Thunder and Ma Hunkel!
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 10, 2019 12:03:43 GMT -5
Y'know, Adams is an excellent artist and all, but his realistic style doesn't work with more silver age-y covers and stories, especially when, like this one, there are "regular" people in the image. It worked well with Batman, when things were kept at "ground level," and even Deadman, which was kind've a realistic take on a ghost, but for books like The Spectre or Weisinger-edited--uh uh. Yes. Well put, MDG . Exhibit A: Adams' first Weisinger cover... BTW, on what, exactly, is Superman resting his legs? The little "pocket" shelf, where the hymnals are kept.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 10, 2019 12:05:02 GMT -5
Yes. Well put, MDG . Exhibit A: Adams' first Weisinger cover... BTW, on what, exactly, is Superman resting his legs? The little "pocket" shelf, where the hymnals are kept. Ah-hah. (It's been a while.)
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Post by zaku on Jan 10, 2019 12:46:16 GMT -5
As for the immigration, you just got to the Dimensionalization and Naturalization Office, fill out form DN-133, in triplicate, with a copy of your birth certificate and letters of introduction from Dr Fate. You can also have things streamlined with the sponsorship of a Guardian of the Universe. You don't need a passport; just a comic book, since the writers are attuned to the vibrational frequency of the other dimension. You just need the right issue and show the page with you on it. Now Martian Manhunter was an illegal alien, always hiding from the INS and everyone else, taking away superhero jobs from better qualified people, like Johnny Thunder and Ma Hunkel! By the way, how similar were the two Earth supposed to be (except for the superheroes and the odd city)? Did they have the same Presidents, same musics, movies and so on? Did she ever mention if she had any problem to adjust to the new Earth?
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 10, 2019 12:57:20 GMT -5
As for the immigration, you just got to the Dimensionalization and Naturalization Office, fill out form DN-133, in triplicate, with a copy of your birth certificate and letters of introduction from Dr Fate. You can also have things streamlined with the sponsorship of a Guardian of the Universe. You don't need a passport; just a comic book, since the writers are attuned to the vibrational frequency of the other dimension. You just need the right issue and show the page with you on it. Now Martian Manhunter was an illegal alien, always hiding from the INS and everyone else, taking away superhero jobs from better qualified people, like Johnny Thunder and Ma Hunkel! By the way, how similar were the two Earth supposed to be (except for the superheroes and the odd city)? Did they have the same Presidents, same musics, movies and so on? Did she ever mention if she had any problem to adjust to the new Earth? I can't recall too many differences being mentioned aside from the names of cities and heroes, unless perhaps the plot needed one. That did not hold true for Earth-Three, however...
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 10, 2019 13:21:00 GMT -5
I can't recall too many differences being mentioned aside from the names of cities and heroes, unless perhaps the plot needed one. That did not hold true for Earth-Three, however... There were definitely some differences. The Earth-2 Dick Grayson was Ambassador to a South Africa that either never had Apartheid or got rid of it decades earlier. I'd have to dig to find other differences, but that one was pretty big.
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Post by zaku on Jan 10, 2019 14:10:20 GMT -5
I can't recall too many differences being mentioned aside from the names of cities and heroes, unless perhaps the plot needed one. That did not hold true for Earth-Three, however... There were definitely some differences. The Earth-2 Dick Grayson was Ambassador to a South Africa that either never had Apartheid or got rid of it decades earlier. I'd have to dig to find other differences, but that one was pretty big. Well, one could argue that the two earths were a little two much similar, considering that there were actual superpowered beings who fought in the WWII. That would be quite a butterfly effect...
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 10, 2019 14:16:52 GMT -5
I just loved the art in JLA #84 ... and I do remember this panel vividly and I also enjoyed the writings of Robert Kanigher here for making it a different feel from Denny O’Neil here. Personally, I enjoyed the O'Neil issues, wasn't too crazy about the one Kanigher issue, and really disliked most of the Mike Friedrich issues. Thank Goodness Len Wein will come around to save the JLA!
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 10, 2019 14:23:06 GMT -5
These reviews are making it very clear that a group book like JLA really isn't the best place for an inexperienced writer to decide to do "characterization." Maybe Gardner Fox's stories weren't long on character touches, but Sufferin' Psychedelia! Watching these Earth-13 versions of formerly recognizable characters turned into marionettes for the very callow Mike Friedrich's high school literary magazine pretentiousness is reminding me why I haven't reread any of these JLA issues since I first bought them off the stands back when we all worshipped fire. The worst is yet to come, though, hard as that may be to believe. HEALTH ALERT: It's #89. You're absolutely right! The art is good, but I give the writing an F, and I very rarely hand out F's.
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Post by MDG on Jan 10, 2019 14:49:20 GMT -5
I can't recall too many differences being mentioned aside from the names of cities and heroes, unless perhaps the plot needed one. That did not hold true for Earth-Three, however... Yeah, I never bought this-- any of those three events in the center tier would imply changes that made things unrecognizable in the 20th century. Also, if the only superpowered beings were criminals, wouldn't they just set themselves up as dictators instead of being "criminals"?
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Post by rberman on Jan 10, 2019 15:09:08 GMT -5
I can't recall too many differences being mentioned aside from the names of cities and heroes, unless perhaps the plot needed one. That did not hold true for Earth-Three, however... Yeah, I never bought this-- any of those three events in the center tier would imply changes that made things unrecognizable in the 20th century. Also, if the only superpowered beings were criminals, wouldn't they just set themselves up as dictators instead of being "criminals"? Yep; we looked into some of these contradictions in discussing Grant Morrison's treatment of the Crime Syndicate. "A world where evil wins" would be unrecognizable, probably a smoking cinder like Apokolips.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 10, 2019 15:14:16 GMT -5
There were definitely some differences. The Earth-2 Dick Grayson was Ambassador to a South Africa that either never had Apartheid or got rid of it decades earlier. I'd have to dig to find other differences, but that one was pretty big. Well, one could argue that the two earths were a little two much similar, considering that were actual superpowered beings who fought in the WWII. That would be quite a butterfly effect... But only domestically. Because of the Spear of Destiny. I forget what exactly the Spear or Destiny did, but Hitler had it and it kept American supers outta Europe.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 15:28:37 GMT -5
dbutler69 ... You are the 2nd person said that to me, and I understand your points and all that; but, I'm a fan of Kanigher's and I do enjoy his approach in that issue for making it different for me to enjoy the action in that issue. Another way of saying here ... different folks (liked Kanigher's feel) and that's who I see it.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 10, 2019 15:36:50 GMT -5
Well, one could argue that the two earths were a little two much similar, considering that were actual superpowered beings who fought in the WWII. That would be quite a butterfly effect... But only domestically. Because of the Spear of Destiny. I forget what exactly the Spear or Destiny did, but Hitler had it and it kept American supers outta Europe. It took control of anyone with super-powers and made them fight for the Nazis. Which it why they could send in Tex Thompson/Americommando behind enemy lines, but Superman or Green Lantern couldn't just go capture Hitler and the German High Command.
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Post by rberman on Jan 10, 2019 18:07:26 GMT -5
JLA #90 “Plague of the Pale People” (June 1971) Creative Team: Mike Friederich wrote it. Art is Dillin and Giella. The Story: The U.S. Military buries a boatload of nerve gas in the ocean, inadvertently destroying the holy rock of the undersea Sareme civilization. This radicalizes them to follow a demagogue in their midst. They retrieve the nerve gas and declare war on Atlantis, which surrenders without a fight. It’s all America’s fault! Note that Friedrich is continuing his technique of second person narrative, this time addressing America directly. A month later, a dead Atlantean woman washes upon on the beach of Gotham City, and the JLA spring into action. Superman and Hawkman defeat two guards in the Sareme city and learn that the action has already moved to Atlantis. With their help, Green Lantern and The Atom are able to defeat the Sareme invaders. But Aquaman is still furious at America for dumping nerve gas in the ocean in the first place. Hawkman adds insult to injury, gives the Pale People a speech how they shouldn’t have been trusting in a holy relic in the first place, and then berating them for trusting in a leader who led them to war. They should only trust in themselves, he counsels. Then he tells them to eat their holy rock, which is now an edible plant somehow. Then at the very end of the story, Batman shows up with a very wounded Flash. Cliffhanger! Continuity reference: The end of the story informs us “For those old timers amongst us – yes, you did meet the Pale People before – in the Oct-Nov 1959 issue of The Flash!” My Two Cents: Well… this one is pretty half baked, going in several thematic directions at once and then dropping a couple of out-of-nowhere plot twists at the end. The first moral is a variation on the ecologically conscious Planet Monsan and “Zappa steals the plankton” stories that ran just a few months ago. The Pale People’s leader is Nebeur Odagled, which is almost backwards for “Reuben Delgado.” I can’t find a historical reference for this name; must be an inside joke. The second moral is pretty obvious, what with the warmongering Sareme leader. Don’t follow a demagogue on a mad war of conquest, OK? Pretty black and white, and pretty juvenile too for readers in a nation neck-deep in debate as to whether its involvement in Viet Nam was a mission of mercy or an imperial sortie. The third moral, “trust only yourself,” was handled so ham-fistedly that it defies description. If anyone can make narrative sense of this sequence of panels, you’re certainly welcome to try! After this, Hawkman tells his fellow JLA members that America too has “lost its traditional value system” (Christianity?) and needs to replace it with self-reliance instead of following politicians. Mind you, “believe in your own souls” is a self-refuting notion. On what grounds would you imagine that your own soul is more reliable that the soul of the leader you’ve just declared unworthy? Also, “Everything is a miracle” means the same as “Nothing is a miracle.” In either case, “miracle” ceases to signify a distinct class of noteworthy events. There’s ongoing inconsistency from moment to moment as to whether the Sareme and the Atlanteans live in the water or live in air pockets at the bottom of the ocean. This is not a trivial matter in a story revolving around gas weapons. Incoherent narrative aside, I will at least give Friederich credit for trying to introduce some culture to his readers, with an opening quotation from T.S. Eliot’s “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock” and a closing line from William Carlos Williams’ “Spring and All.” At one point Superman is overwhelmed when “the tremendous water-pressure nearly equals that of his native Krypton.” As far as I’m aware, Krypton is not known for having incredible water pressure or incredible gravity. It just has a red sun that inhibits Kryptonian super powers, right?
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